Stuff

Bible the cruelist and most barbaric book in existence….yet people in general know little of it, and never hear of this kind of stuff in sermons. What I wonder is, “Do the pastors, priests, Sunday School leaders know this? Thus, are they stupid, blind, or just phonys.?


Most Christians though are docile and harmless….until a leader or cause, like being anti-homosexual, unites them. Then the meanness come forth…of course justified by God and the Bible

Debate with Roger

Roger bible


John Ecker That’s exactly what most people do, Roger….though I don’t know about you. How many people disallow the sabbath, let women speak in church, cut their beards wrong, etc, etc?

  • Roger Allan Context John. Context. Believe it or not you just did exactly what the meme warned not to do. The Bible needs to be studies, not just read every so once in a while or used as a tool by a blogger to make an isolated point. For example….”Judge not lest ye be judged” does NOT mean what you think it means.
  • John Ecker Sure, Roger. Tell us all about you reading the Bible, please.
  • Roger Allan Not enough room in this thread to get into all of it John.
  • Roger Allan Let me address one of your issues, however. The guidelines for cutting a beard are found in Leviticus, a book often used to show Christians what hypocrites we are but its a failed argument. Leviticus was written as a set of laws for the tribe of Levi, the High Priests of Israel. It was never meant for anyone else. I’m not a High Priest and I’m not even Jewish. Moot point.
  • John Ecker Here are just a few examples of how people don’t actually follow the Bible anymore….though many think they do: T
  • 1 Corinthians 14:34: Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law sa…See 
  • Roger Allan I was hoping you would give me something original but I guess not. I’m going to address each one of these individually so hang on and don’t respond yourself until I say I’m done OK? There will be one comment for each issue you have brought up.
  • First is the women speaking in Church issue. A friend of mine actually dealt with this recently and I’m going to post his comment as it states the issue perfectly.
    “The explanation takes into account some other aspects of Scripture including the larger context of the passage at hand.
    The immediate context is about orderly worship, but the larger scope of the passage in chapter 14 is talking about prophecy in the church. When someone in the church had a teaching or message to give to the church it was a word of prophecy. Any time some such message was given it had to be tested and evaluated against Scripture to make sure that it was valid. When it was validated it would be considered authoritative and in a sense binding to those who heard it.
    The Bible explains in several places are marriages are to work in loving submission to each-other, but with the husband having the responsibility of headship. While a husband may consult his wife and reach a decision together, ultimately he has the burden of being responsible for the final choices made (see Why is Adam considered the original sinner?).
    In the context of this church, this means that men have the responsibility of evaluating, approving and delivering teaching to the whole body. Since women do not bear the burden of responsibility in such matters, they are asked not to be the ones voicing concerns or pronouncing judgement when such matters came up.
    One must also note that Paul did not restrict women from praying or even prophesying themselves. (See 3 chapters earlier in 1 Corinthians 11:5 and Acts 2:17) This is purely an issue of headship and authority, which the Law also spoke to rather than an edict against speaking in a church building and participating in other ways.
    Unmarried women are still expected to have some sort of structure around them. This would primarily be the father who is responsible for daughters until they are given over to a husband, but a brother or other family relation could play a similar role.”Roger Allan The divorce issue is simple really. Christians get divorced. They shouldn’t but they do. We’re not perfect and we don’t pretend to be. I can only speak for myself and my church on how this is approached and give you one example.
  • We have a couple in our church that got married not too long ago. They were both divorced and had a child out of wedlock with each other before they got married. We don’t turn ANYONE away from attending services and worshiping with us and they were no exception. However, when the issue of their wedding came up, our Pastor graciously refused to perform the ceremony and explained why. They didn’t kick, yell and scream and threaten to sue. They got married, just without our Pastor performing the ceremony. They still attend our Church to this day. A homosexual couple would get the same treatment, it would be no different.John Ecker Okay, then why not rationalize about homosexuality? Jesus never mentioned it, you know.
  • Roger Allan OK, now lets look at the issue of helping the poor. John, why do you think its the churches that run the food pantries, soup kitchens, homeless shelters, city missions etc etc etc? Socialism is the government taking money from others, by force and then giving it to others. That’s not the spirit of giving and charity that Christ taught. Lets say you and I are sitting on a park bench and I have two sandwiches and you have none. Which is more Christ like – I give you the sandwich because you don’t have one and I want you to have it or Barack Obama comes and puts a gun to my head and orders me to give it to you. Christ was not a Socialist, he was an advocate for the poor. Huge difference.
  • Shane Ross Duh, Adam and Eve. Sodom and Gomorrah..people are just stupid. Cindy
  • John Ecker Hey, by the way, I have hundreds of examples of people using the Bible to support any position.
  • Roger Allan I got lots of time John, bring them on.
  • John Ecker Okay, you and everybody going to get a huge dose. BTW, I’m not against you per se, but the book you using just doesn’t cut the mustard anymore. I like it’s precepts, but the devil is in the details.
  • Like · Reply · 5 hrs · Edited
  • Roger Allan One of the weakest arguments I get, however, is that Christ never spoke out against homosexuality. Here we go with the trail mix thing again. He most certainly did. There may not be a particular nut or raisin you can pick out to prove it but if you eat a whole mouth full you would know that ANYTIME Christ addressed marriage or sexuality he always spoke of a man and a woman, not ever a “partner”. He was always VERY specific about it being a man and a woman.Like · Reply · 1 · 5 hrs
  • Roger Allan I’ll take it as I can. I have to go to work for right now.Like · Reply · 5 hrs
  • John Ecker Roger, you have used the Bible to back up your political beliefs….simple as that….but that is typical. Think about what I say.Like · Reply · 4 hrs
  • Roger Allan No, I have used the Bible to back up what I believe. Nothing political about it. These are issues that have been made political by a government that wants to control everything we do. Taking care of the poor should not be political, neither should a moral life be. I think I’ve made it pretty clear that the government has no business telling anyone who can and cannot marry. Its just not their business but, on the same token, that same government has no right to tell me whether or not I have to participate. In other words, politics should have nothing to do with any of this.Like · Reply · 4 hrs
  • Roger Allan At the end of the day, I’m not using the Bible, I’m following it. I’m learning from it. That process, by the way, never ends.Like · Reply · 4 hrs
  • John Ecker Anybody can back up anything with the Bible, Roger….you must know that. Everything you say is political. Think about it for awhile before you react. It took me years to admit such to myself. Now I am much more mellow concerning issues, and I only refer to thre Bible, but just for reference. It is plain outdated and wrong on so much. To just ignore that, is just not right.Like · Reply · 4 hrs
  • John Ecker Slepp on it.Like · Reply · 4 hrs
  • Roger Allan When I hear people tell me the Bible is outdated and wrong on so much, I usually find that the trail mix thing is being used, again. I have been where you are now John, I truly have. I actually spent years questioning it and those questions were many of the same you have put out there. I don’t need to sleep on it. Been there. Done that. Got the T-Shirt.Like · Reply · 4 hrs
  • Roger Allan And you’re right. The Bible CAN be abused and used to justify just about anything. Its the trail mix thing again.Like · Reply · 4 hrs
  • John Ecker What’s this trail mix thing, Roger?Like · Reply · 4 hrs
  • Roger Allan Its nit picking scripture here and there to just get what you want out of it. I see it so often its ridiculous. You just threw a whole bunch at me. When I present my arguments, I use the whole context, including cross referencing and other teachings by the same author.’Like · Reply · 4 hrs
  • John Ecker Okay, get ready for some real questions, and then over 1000 ridiculous things from the Bible. Let’s start with a little one about faith. Faith is ignoring questions that make a person face reality. Just ignore the facts. Just justify whatever happens in life as positve. Baby dies, oh now he will Jesus, 104,000 people die in an tsunami, and one kid lives, oh what a miracle….God always covered. Tell me, why did the 104,000 people die. Oh, because Adam ate an apple 6000 years ago, oh, it was really a fruit, sorry…that makes a difference.
    God said in Genesis that eating the fruit was from thge tree of knowledge of right and wrong. Well tell me how they supposed to know the difference between right and wrong before they ate it. So how could God allow all the evil into the world from two creatures who didn’t know right frtom wrong yet.
    Oh, just have faith. How.
    Once saved always saved. So get saved then ignore people and their questions, and continue on.
    Again, I’m not blaming you for anything. I’m just vasking questions.Like · Reply · 4 hrs
  • Roger Allan And, again, your not asking me anything that I haven’t already heard. LIke I told you John, I’ve done a lot of what you have and I have a lot of research saved. In a lot of these cases I’m going to give you the resource link that I found to be dead on and that I agree with. So you don’t think I’m some kind of a puppet, I have read a lot that I don’t agree with to. On the “Why does God allow evil to exist and why do we just accept it?” issue… here you go…
    https://carm.org/why-does-god-allow-evil-and-suffering-worldWhy does God allow evil and suffering in the world?

    Why does God allow evil? Because it is in his…

    CARM.ORG

    Shane Ross Read the Bible then pray and fast and ask God for your answers. Until then just don’t waste our time with your trivial pursuit. cindy

  • Like · Reply · 4 hrs
  • John Ecker Cindy. Who is Cindy?Like · Reply · 4 hrs
  • Roger Allan Cindy is Shane Ross’ wife.Like · Reply · 4 hrs
  • John Ecker Hmm, so you are just going to say, you have heard all this stuff before, Roger? I have stuff too to throw at you, but won’t do that.Like · Reply · 4 hrs
  • John Ecker Cindy, oh she sounds like a real Christian….just ignore the question and say an insult. You not like that, I’m glad to see, Roger.Like · Reply · 4 hrs
  • Roger Allan Your misjudging her. Cindy is a wonderful person. She’s just not as good at Facebook Judo as I am.Like · Reply · 4 hrs
  • John Ecker Okay, sorry, Cindy. I jumped to a conclusion. BTW, do you think I’m not a wonderful guy just because I gave up on the Bible?Like · Reply · 4 hrs
  • Shane Ross I get annoyed at people who just want to be right. They are wrong. God is right and He is the I answer too. Rober, you are much more patient than I am..that’s exactly why women shouldn’t be allowed to voice their opinion in church.smile emoticon CindyLike · Reply · 4 hrs
  • Shane Ross ILike · Reply · 4 hrs
  • Shane Ross I’m not the greatest typist either.Like · Reply · 4 hrs
  • Roger Allan I don’t know you John but Donna speaks highly of you. I think your a good guy which is why I take this kind of time. If I didn’t like you I wouldn’t give you the time of day.Like · Reply · 4 hrs
  • John Ecker Want to be right…Come on, everybody wants to be right, including you right now. We are talking about truth here, not who is right.Like · Reply · 4 hrs
  • John Ecker But Roger bif you going to make statements about anything, you must defend them….not just refuse to give the time of day. BTW, I’m actually very close to you politically.Like · Reply · 4 hrs
  • Roger Allan No you don’t understand. If I didn’t like you I would block you. You wouldn’t even by on my page.Like · Reply · 4 hrs
  • John Ecker So block out dissension, Rog? That not right is it.; I bet you grow from discenxion. I know I do.Like · Reply · 3 hrs
  • Roger Allan I’m all about any of that. Its disrespect and mockery that I don’t put up with.Like · Reply · 3 hrs
  • Shane Ross Amen!Like · Reply · 3 hrs
  • John Ecker Yes, nobody should. I hope I don’t come off that way, but people who are afraid to answer questions might think that.Like · Reply · 3 hrs
  • Shane Ross Just read the Bible. It’s simple. Open it anywhere you like. It’s not like any other book. You will fall in love with it. You will wrestle with it. You will be captured by it. Just do it! CindyLike · Reply · 3 hrs
  • John Ecker That’s exactly what I might have said 5 years ago. Then I did it, Cindy.Like · Reply · 3 hrs
  • Shane Ross How much of it?Like · Reply · 3 hrs
  • Roger Allan What happens most often is people judge the Bible based on the behavior of the people that read it, or claim to read it. Don’t do that.Like · Reply · 3 hrs
  • John Ecker All of it, except some stuff from the OT. Yes, Roger, I’m judging you by what you say the Bible says, or purports.Like · Reply · 3 hrs
  • Shane Ross And you didn’t find God’s message to you? Read it again. He has something very important to say to you. CindyLike · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Roger Allan No that’s not my point. Judge meLike · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Roger Allan No problem. I’m not perfect. Just don’t judge the Bible based on me. You do yourself a disserviceLike · Reply · 2 hrs
  • John Ecker I have never said there isn’t something in the Bible for everyone, Cindy, but that’s the problem. Tell me do you believe that a snake talked to Adam and Eve in Genesis? Or that millions of species of animals were fed and cleaned in a boat 450 ft long with only a single, small window up top. How did the marsupials…only native to Australia you know and taking about 18 hours to travel to by jet today….get from the ark to there? I guess Noah dog paddled there with them? I’d like to know how Noah and his sons ever built the ark without modern tools or nails. Please tell me and us all.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • John Ecker Yeah, you not perfect Roger becaue you told you born a piece of crap because of something done by Adam thousands of years ago. You deserve nothing you know. I’m not saying that, but religion does. You always off balance and needing a church to save you….right?Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Roger Allan No wrong. I don’t need a church to save me. The saving is already done. That happened Dec 29, 1984 for me.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Shane Ross I believe all of it. This is the God who created the universe just by speaking it. He didn’t have to think about it and he planned it from beginning to now in perfect order. Look around you. This didn’t just happen from a something meeting and making something else so it turned into something new. This earth has purpose and order. God can do anything with nothing. If he wants to give a 400 year old man the building plans to a boat and have it save the species that all this came from, yes I believe he could have done it without Noah. I’m a diver and I know what intense pressure exists at just 30 feet underwater and how at 80 feet your cannot make your way to surface without a device to hold air that will expand enough to bring you back to the surface. All those dinosaur bones are found near each other because the pressure of that flood pushed them all together in the low places. They didn’t decompose over time. They were pressure treated to be preserved to a small space in time to prove that it was a flood and not a slow thing like climate change..Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • John Ecker Yeah and where did this all happen. Roger. In church right, and you a happy member ever since, right, with your tithing?Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Roger Allan Actually. No. It didn’t happen in church and yes, I tithe to my church but I also hold them accountable for how the money is spent and in a big way.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • John Ecker And tell me more….”saved from what?” from what Adam did thousands of years ago? Or are you a breaker of the civil law and need to be put in jail?Like · Reply · 2 hrs · Edited
  • Shane Ross You are saved from God’s wrath.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Roger Allan Are we really going to go there John? You know the answer. You have rejected it. Your trying to show me that I’m foolish for accepting it. This is where I draw the line.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • John Ecker Ut oh, drawing out now, Roger. I knew this would happen, just for asking where you are such a bad guy? Come on!!! It was rhetorical and you know it.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Roger Allan I’m not drawing out, I’m just not going to take the time to answer a question that I think you know the answer to and have chosen to reject it.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • John Ecker Tell me, Cindy, God’s wrath….for what,….being human? I don’t do anything to deserve God’s wrath….just like you don’t. You have got the old original sin problem.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • John Ecker What answer did I reject? You trying to dance out now, Rog.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Roger Allan Here’s the problem. There is no common ground. It’s useless for me to give you scripture references because you don’t believe the Bible in the first place. Your looking for proof. If there was proof, we wouldn’t need Faith.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Roger Allan All I can tell you is I have seen the difference in my life. You haven’t because you don’t know me.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
    • John Ecker Glad for you, Rog, and I have seen such a change myself, but I’m past it now. I was reared by my mother to be like I am.Like · 2 hrs
    • Write a reply… 
  • John Ecker But it’s you who needs to prove stuff, not me. It’s you using the Bible to support yourself. Why can’t you stand up for it. Why not use the Book mof Zeus, BTW….if it really exists.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Shane Ross God created you. He gave you a choice. Choose God, Choose to live by His guidance or spend eternity in Hell. It’s your choice. It’s not hard to follow His guidance. Adam and Eve didn’t even have ten rules. Just one. Don’t eat from that tree. It was so silly, so trivial God probably figured they would do better than they did. But then there’s Satan. He just hammers away at us. Telling us we’re stupid for believing there is a God in charge and then we get like you. First you stop following the rules, then you stop believing the Bible then you yell at believers until God is out of your life completely. It’s a slow process but you choose every step along the way.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • John Ecker Oh, so God is going to force me to accept him or if I don’t I must go to hell to burn forever….even after living a good clean life? Would you send your kids to hell for that? I know you wouldn’t. Does that make you better than God….not taking part in this\, “do it my waty, or go to hell?’Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Shane Ross Yup, that’s the choice. Do it God’s way or go to hell.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
    • John Ecker You not using your head now, Cindy. God is a dictator then.Like · 2 hrs
    • Write a reply… 
  • Shane Ross You can be saved. You give your life to Him. Simple again. He has a plan and a purpose. And it’s great!Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • John Ecker This a great conversation. I thank you for that, Roger and Cindy, but you guys have forfitted reason for a ticket to a place that nobody can and ever has presented a scintilla of evidence for….heaven. You want to go there and praise God continually forever.?Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Shane Ross I’ll be there. If I don’t see you there I’ll understand why. I’ll be sad but I can’t save you. Only you can save you.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • John Ecker Heaven sounds pretty boring to me.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Roger Allan This is where it always goes badly. The idea that God wants to send anyone to Hell. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Again, if you actually studied the Bible instead of treating it like trail mix you would know thats wrong. In fact, He so badly wants us to join him in Heaven that he made the path there so easy its hard for some people to understand. The awesome thing is being a Christian isn’t a bad thing at all. Just because there are some things we’re not supposed to do that some people think we should be able to do the idea gets rejected wholesale. I submit to you that if we all lived our lives according to the Bible’s teachings we would all live in a pretty amazing place.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • John Ecker So why not just forgive us, Roger. What’s with this Cecil B diMille movie script.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • John Ecker Roger, you really bound up with original sin….like I used to be.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Shane Ross If your child steals your car and wrecks it do you reward him with another car? You give your children rules and reward them when they follow your guidance.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Roger Allan No, wrong again John. Not bound up by original sin, bound up by mine.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Shane Ross When God says NO he is trying to keep us from hurting ourselves.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Shane Ross Just like we do with our kids.Like · Reply · 1 · 2 hrs
  • John Ecker Like what, Roger. Bound up!!1 Come on, you a good guy, bound up? I tell you, I’m glad I freed myself of that perspective.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Shane Ross So you don’t sin?Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • John Ecker Yeah, Cindy, you going to send your kids to eternity of hell for anything. I doubt it.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Roger Allan I’m glad it works for you John. It doesn’t for me. Let’s respect that because I’m not going to change your mind and your not going to change mine. Its an agree to disagree thing at this point.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Shane Ross My kids make their own choices. I can’t save them either.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • John Ecker I’ll look at the nurse’s butt while in the hospital, but that about all.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Shane Ross If you’ve been in the hospital then you better start thinking about heaven a little more seriously…and quickly.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • John Ecker So you walking around ringing your hands all the time, Roger….bound with sin. I doubt that, but you do judge others like homosexuals for just wqantinbg to love theiur partner. That is where you go wrong, my friend….using the Bible to judge….when it enphatically says not to.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Roger Allan Where does the Bible say not to judge? Caution: I have heard this before and DESTROYED that argument.\Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • John Ecker No, Cindy, I’m healthy….I think. I’m not the leadst bit worried about hell. I don’t deserve going there for just using my mind.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Shane Ross Homosexuality is not about love it’s about sex. That’s the dividing line. I love my mother. I love my kids. I don’t have sex with them. That’s what God is against…the sex part.Like · Reply · 1 · 2 hrs
  • John Ecker Mat 7:1-3.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • John Ecker Love and sex go together, Cindy.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Shane Ross Oh boy, you better rethink that one. Look at what the world has created. Love has very little to do with the sex our society purports.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • John Ecker But doesn’t matter how you interpret Mat 7:1-3, Rioger, you will get it to work for you….I know that.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Shane Ross That nurse you looked at…do you love her or just want to have sex with her?Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • John Ecker So you going to have sex with a guy who is attractive, not your loving husband, Cindy.? Of course sex going with love. That’s why one waits until marriage….to express love.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Roger Allan Your disappointingly predictable. I was hoping for a challenge. The problem here is the definition of judging. Pointing out what is right and wrong is not judging. Its going what God has commanded us to do to keep other from falling into the wrong path. However, when we do this from a position of superiority and judge a person in that manner, then we have a problem and yes, there are people that do that. I’m not one and I can only speak for myself. Educating and judging are two different things. So are tolerance and acceptance but our society has blurred that line too.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • John Ecker Getting testy now, Rog. This isn’t personal, Man. You trying to tell me, you don’t judge homosexuals as being wrong.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • Shane Ross God tells us to tell others how to be saved from sin…no how to sin better.Like · Reply · 2 hrs
  • John Ecker So, guys, you find out your son is homosexual (this is hpothetical)….you tell him to stop, he doesn’t and explains why….you throw him into a fire forever?Like · Reply · 1 hr
  • Roger Allan Whether or not homosexuality is wrong isn’t my call. That’s way above my pay grade. The one that has determined that it is wrong is God and he has every right to do that. All I do is pass that information on and then a person can decide for themselv…See MoreLike · Reply · 1 hr
  • Shane Ross He throws himself in the fire. Like I said before Jesus tells the harlot to go and sin no more after he saves her from being stoned. You’ve got to repent and stop sinning or it’s not real repentence.Like · Reply · 1 hr
  • John Ecker Oh, so, some guys besides Jesus say this and you believe that particular part of the Bible. Would you have believed in slavery, Roger and Cindy, before the Civil War. It’s in the Bible, as I’m sure you know. What about cutting a woman’s hand off for he…See MoreLike · Reply · 1 hr
  • Roger Allan There’s that trail mix thing again. Honestly, this is getting tiring.Like · Reply · 1 hr
  • Roger Allan Yeah I’m out John. Say what you want about it but at this point I feel like I’m chasing my tail. I have more productive things to do right now.Like · Reply · 1 hr
  • John Ecker No, you getting your butt kicked with reality and don’t like it. Hey, I’m just starting. Why dance out, Roger. You have got God and the bible on your side. Trail mix….phew what a crock that is. You just can’t answer. You don’t really know what is real, Roger. But I say that in a nice way. You a child in your thinking. Now get with Cindy and tell each other what a beast I am. But you still can’t face the questions. Sorry.Like · Reply · 1 hr
  • Shane Ross Lot was lucky to have Abraham for an uncle otherwise he would have been toast. Angels have some powers that we don’t but they aren’t God. Slaves…hhmmm. I’m not sure what they did with the poor in those days. I wasn’t there. If they hired them to work on farms like migrant workers and called them slaves….just not sure. But if it helps someone get a meal instead of letting them starve then I get that. I’ve not remembering the cutting off the wife’s hands by helping her husband fight. I haven’t heard of that one. It says if your hand causes you to sin it’s better to cut it off then to keep sinning. So sin is bad and God doesn’t want you to do it. bottom line.Like · Reply · 1 hr
  • John Ecker Cindy, you a little crazy in this stuff….just a little. Just what do you do, or anybody else you know that is so bad that you and they deverve to burn forever. You wouldn’t do that to your kids, I say again.Like · Reply · 1 hr
  • Roger Allan There goes that mocking thing. I’m not a child John and I’m not a child in my thinking. This has nothing to do with reality, well it does actually and when you realize what the reality is its not going to go well for you. I told you that mocking was my limit and you crossed that line. Good luck to you.Like · Reply · 1 hr
  • Shane Ross All we can do is pray for you. You have to do the rest. God speed.Like · Reply · 1 hr
  • John Ecker Not mocking, Roger. Sorry if you took it that way. Okay, you chidlike in your thinking…but I remember never analyzing things also.Like · Reply · 1 hr
  • John Ecker Pray for me, yes, thanks, but please tell us what you or any friends do to deserve hell.Like · Reply · 1 hr
  • Shane Ross Ask the God of the universe that question. He set this thing up not me. I just follow His guidance.Like · Reply · 1 hr
  • John Ecker So what sin have you committed, dear girl, under his guidance? I don’t think much to send you to hell for. “God of the universe”, oh my, what a fanatic..Like · Reply · 1 hr
  • Shane Ross I have sinned. I have repented. I am free from God’s wrath and live in His love. I could just do nothing and enter heaven for all etenity but then there is you. I would love you to be saved. God would love for you to be saved. But your heart is hard and apparently stuck on one or two questions. Too bad. keep searching, keep praying. You’ll see the light. Your eyes will be opened and you will find peace. It’ll be great! Keep searching man. You’ll get it.Like · Reply · 1 hr
  • John Ecker I was “saved” 40 years ago, now I realize God not the hard nosed guy you make him out to be. But you and Roger stayed a long time. I honor that, Good luck to you both….bye. BTW, I was wondering someting just now, Cindy, why did you use the term God of the Universe”? Was this to gain points from him? Just wondering. Hope you print out this dialogue and study it.Like · Reply · 1 hr · Edited
  • Shane Ross Then talk to God. Get reaquainted or whatever it is you need to do and stop picking on Roger. He’s one of the good guys.Like · Reply ·

Debate with Roger

Deleted….dup of above

Did I post this before? Oh well here it is, timeless

Just thought of these questions for you and the group:
The universe is huge. There are literally billions of galaxies, and we live in only one. The nearest star is 5 light years away….others are so far away it takes billions of years for the light to get to us.
So God has made a really big place. We less than a speck of dust in this universe.
I’m wondering why a God powerful enough to make all this would concern himself with us….to the extent….that he would appear in a burning bush in a desert. Why not just appear?
I’m wondering why he would send his own son to be whipped, scourged, and crucified so we could be forgiven. It’s Jesus doing the forgiving….since he is God, why kill himself when all he had to do is just forgive. What’s with the Hollywood type drama of raising from the dead, going to hell to free the good souls there, then come back to a bunch of illiterate peasant followers….who couldn’t read or write.  And why the inefficiency. It took several hundred years for all this Christian stuff to gain control. What about the people before then. They go to hell and burn forever?
 I hope you just don’t dismiss this stuff. It is real stuff, not dogma.

Letter to Donnie Swaggart

Donnie, you don’t feel guilty about your football coach pep talk methods used during your sermons? You have people believing they born bad, then you beat them to a pulp and make them quiver with shame, shaking, and crying. I’d be ashamed of using such a tactic.
You know you using emotion of music….repeating the verses three times.
Then you never take criticism well on Frances show. Where did you get that toady, Jim Nations?…the anti Catholic, Masons expert? This guy a mental wreck….you got him in your palms….the poor SOB.
I’m wondering if you actually believe all the BS you throw. Does your father believe all this stuff?
 
But it does help those pathetic people in your congregation….the ones with the raised hands and quivering lips. I’d just like to know exactly how many people they have killed or raped….being they so shameful. But they contribute to your mission, right?
 
You and that whole organization a bunch of fake, phony, frauds….period..

Some questions

Just thought of these questions for you and the group:
The universe is huge. There are literally billions of galaxies, and we live in only one. The nearest star is 5 light years away….others are so far away it takes billions of years for the light to get to us.
So God has made a really big place. We less than a speck of dust in this universe.
I’m wondering why a God powerful enough to make all this would concern himself with us….to the extent….that he would appear in a burning bush in a desert. Why not just appear?
I’m wondering why he would send his own son to be whipped, scourged, and crucified so we could be forgiven. It’s Jesus doing the forgiving….since he is God, why kill himself when all he had to do is just forgive. What’s with the Hollywood type drama of raising from the dead, going to hell to free the good souls there, then come back to a bunch of illiterate peasant followers….who couldn’t read or write.  And why the inefficiency. It took several hundred years for all this Christian stuff to gain control. What about the people before then. They go to hell and burn forever?


Reply from my intellectual friendm Connie

John,

Isaac,
This is the last I will say on the subject. I do not wish to discuss it. 

This is what I think.

When I first became a Christian, I asked about the old testament stories that to me were outrageous and could not possible be true.  I was told that I just had to believe that I was a sinner and believe in Jesus as my Lord and Savior.  Both of which I did and still do.

The more I read the new testament and what Jesus taught I asked myself, self does Jesus believe the old testament.  I said yes. Well if he believed it that is good enough for me.

Thank end, finished, nothing left to say.

I am so sorry about your sister. Is your mom still alive? She is living a parents worst nightmare if she is.

Let me know when you are coming. There is lots of politics and world troubles to discuss.
 
Love,
Connie

My thoughts on this old friend:

Hmm, she doesn’t want to discuss anything. She goes by faith. Thus she believes in talking donkeys, snakes, arks, genocide by Joshua, leprosy being a curse from God, etc.She lacks conviction so much that she can’t defend her position. She typical of faith person….a person who has not a shred of evidence concerning her beliefs. Nitice how she ended with “Love, Connie”. Hmm, so a friend of 50 years who loves me is just going to let me die and go to an eternity of burning in hell….all because she can’t defend herself. Nice friend!!!

 

I hope others will try to ask questions of their so-called Christian friends and hope you get a better result than this fake, phony, fraud “friend.”

Another letter to Connie

Faith is ignoring questions that make a person face reality. Just ignore the facts. Just justify whatever happens in life as positve. Baby dies, oh now he will Jesus, 104,000 people die in an tsunami, and one kid lives, oh what a miracle….God always covered. Tell me, why did the 104,000 people die. Oh, because Adam ate an apple 6000 years ago, oh, it was really a fruit, sorry…that makes a difference.
God said in Genesis that eating the fruit was from thge tree of knowledge of right and wrong. Well tell me how they supposed to know the difference between right and wrong before they ate it. So how could God allow all the evil into the world from two creatures who didn’t know right frtom wrong yet.
Oh, just have faith. How. 
Once saved always saved. So get saved then ignore people and their questions, and continue on.
Again, I’m not bblaming you for anything. I’m just vasking questions.
I’m saying you the same person now as before you “saved”. Your mother taught you to be good, not anybody else….just as my mother did me.
I’m not a bit different than ever….just using my brain. Things just don’t add up, Honey.


Letter to Connie

Connie, who said or implied you came from slime? I’m asking about the Bible….the “word of God”….the book your faith in everything concerning Christianity is based. It’s not fair to shift this discussion….one that has never actually ever started….to where we originated…”slime”. For the record, I am not an atheist who says we have come from nothing, or from slime. I am only saying that religion the way most people know it is man-made….and can prove it to any fair minded person, or at least interact so as to investigate such. Don’t tell me you not that person, then you not the gal I knew.
You seem to be a person who is afraid of finding out I just might be correct. But now if you dismiss me, you will never know.
So come on, baby, let’s investigate this together. I’d like to be driven back to your way of viewing things….plus my wife solidly in your corner.
What is wrong with reading the Bible….something you, nor any typical believer has. I surely didn’t start out this way, but reading it has given me a different perspectus….but maybe I’m wrong. I frankly don’t have anybody to io9nvestigate this with. 
And don’t ever think God is mad at anybody who uses the brain He gave them I’m not a bit different as a person to the guy at Brockport, and neither are you. 
Think about this a few days, and rise up like the Connie I knew. Imagine we on a driving trip discussing this. I am not going to judge you for your faith, just define it. Itf your beliefs are real, and legit, why be afraid of any of this.
Your old pal, 
John

Stuff about a man frying a guinea pig in America.

Unfortunately people from different cultures eat what we consider pets, like, of course, dogs in China. But we must remember what we do in slayghter houses to cow, steers, pigs and chickens….horrendous mass killing, with blood and guts all over the place. When I was a boy in Virginia, I remember seeing hogs hanging from trees with no intestines….people there summarily killing their own meat. Was a real shock for a kid from Long Island. But such is the world….though it hard to take for us people who aren’t in the abattoirs. We go to the store and buy cut meat in a package, and never realize the steer had to be slaughtered for us.