Yeah, I’ve been to his house in Palmyer, NY, and heard the speal about Jesus coming to him with a vision. Luckily, when I asked my little son, Joshua, aged 11 0r 12, whether he believed this, he answered, “No Daddy”. This Smith character no different than Moses, Paul, Mohammed, L. Ron Hubbard, etc getting people who want to believe to follow him. Read his Doctrine and Covenants and see how he always had a vision right after someone asked a question. The guy a fake, phony, fraud. Yet he founded a nice group of people who will do anything to help you. But fact is, religion just seems to be the need for a creed to hold a bunch of losers together to do nice things. We went to a Mormon ‘church’ in Lewiston, NY, and they did everything to make us feel comfortable….including founding a class taught in Spanish just so my wife could have a place to go every Sunday. “Missionaries also came to carry shingles up to my roof, and they would have done the whole job if I had asked.
I wrote this on Facebook in reply to his threat:
No, Mike, please tell us all where Jesus, not Paul, mentioned a thing against or for homosexuals. Look what they do sexually is disgusting to me, and you, but what we do is disgusting to them. They cannot increase in the population. Who would ever choose to be a homosexual? Nobody. Don’t go by the radicals homosexuals with their dumb agenda. Most homosexuals you don’t even know they are. They just want to be able to be happy….period. Leave them alone. What are they supposed to do….lay down and die. This issue is long overdue, and by nature will turn out in favor of homosexuals, just like slavery for blacks, and the ability to talk in church for woman. Tell me, how would you feel if your son was a homosexual? I’m waiting to hear the verses, about Jesus and this issue. Don’t forget Paul was like a pastor trying to get and keep members. Back then they thought this stuff catching. Of course Paul was against it. Remember they also thought lepers were impure too, and that menstruating women too. Come. I’m waiting for the verses. Go ahead look….we ALL WAITING
Originally written to OLDBEAR by me : He does nothing with us, Oldbear. We just die and return to dust. We didn’t mind this before we born, as we will after death….like anything else in the universe. How did God dying to himself have anything to do with me or you, or anybody else. Why not just forgive everyone? Why let the devil beat us to death? Just eliminate him. What’s with this Hollywood type drama model?
Then X man wrote this: Think of it Legally. If a King has laws that are broken by it’s citizens, the citizen must be punished. By sinning against God, we are actually rebelling against Him and His Kingdom. According to Justice, we have to pay for our crimes by going to Prison (hell). Legally, that’s true. God loves us so much that He was willing to send His only Son to die for us and take our punishment so that we don’t have to go to Prison (hell). Just as the President of the U.S. can pardon a crime so that you don’t have to go to Prison, Jesus Christ can pardon your sins so that you don’t have to go to hell. All you have to do is accept His offer of a Pardon for sins. So, the people who go to hell, don’t actually go because of their sins, they go because they refuse to accept the pardon that God offers them through Faith in Jesus Christ.
I replied with this: What sins, X man? I don’t commit heinous sins, or even little ones….ones that would merit me to burn in hell forever. You? What with all this sin stuff? Looks like a way to keep everybody needing church and its spiritual guidance, and FORGIVENESS.
I’m sorry, but I am not going to be made to feel guilty and unworthy. All this BS is man-made. No way a real God is going to neglect the Chinese, Indians, etc because they didn’t accept his fake son as savior….savior from what….oh, damn, the ultimate punishment….HELL!!!! But on the other hand, I could accept all this, live a decrepit holy life, and then have to worship God in heaven constantly. What kind of life, and reward is that??? No thanks!!!!
Then Oldbear chimed in with this: Here’s the thing, INB. Heaven is God’s home. For all the descriptions about beauty, peace and pleasure, it really comes down to being close to God. Being close to God means doing the kind of things He would do, not doing what He would not so, saying what He would say, not saying what He would not say, thinking and liking what pleases God, and rejecting the things that offend God.
With me so far?
I replied to Oldbear with: I do that stuff automatically, Oldbear. Nobody needs God in the Bible to know what is right and wrong, and which hurts others feelings.
Then Sam wrote: We don’t automatically do the right thing. Your morality is thoroughly informed by your culture and history.
I answered: No, Sam, my morality a result of my Italian mother. I just talked to her, and she still checking me out, at 92 years old!!!. Mothers have more to do with the kind of person you are than Bible or God. I do admit she mentioned God in the past, but nor much. I grew up in Virginia where their were No Catholic Churches, so I never attended one until I was maybe 12 years old. Yet I turned out to be a guy who doesn’t like to see anybody suffer.
Aren’t you like that? I think so….but it wasn’t from the Bible….especially if you Catholic.
Sam replied: Our parents taught us, and they were products of their culture as well. They didn’t just make the stuff up. That’s like saying you believe in due process of law because of your con law professor, but that it has nothing to do with the Constitution.
Then me again: You must think more deeply. Sam. Where and when did man invent morality….think back to times before the Bible. Man around for over 100,000 years. As long as their were more than one person, they had to get along, and cooperate. Thus they had to treat each other in a pleasant way. Then groups formed….more cooperation. Do you think the Jews went around raping and stealing from one another before Moses provided the ten commandments? Hey that was after being captured by the Egyptians for 400 years. Have you read the commandments lately? Do a google and read them. Moses wanted to unite his people….the morality was there long before. Yes, morality has to do with culture, NOT the Bible or religion. Religion invented to grasp hold of the people’s minds.
Then Sam replied: Different cultures have different ideas about morality. Why do you think our parents didn’t practice human sacrifice? Ultimately, it’s because of Abraham.
I answered: This duffus, Abraham was about to kill his own son, Sam, come on….just because God wanted to see what he would do….even though he knew since the beginning of time what would happen anyway. Aren’t you beginning to see how none of this religion B.S. makes any sense at all. People merely WANT to believe in it.
Sam answered: People killed their sons at that time because they thought it was the right thing to do. They didn’t automatically know otherwise, but they needed God to guide them to the truth. It’s no different today. Look at how we still sacrifice our children through abortion, now that we’ve forgotten God.
I replied: Sam, you mean you wouldn’t know not to kill your son without religion. Methinks you selling yourself and mankind short. It’s religion that makes man do bad things, not reason.
Yeah, I am reading Healing, A Doctor in Search of a Miracle by Nolen. He expresses fact that believers don’t want to know cthe truth, and can become hostile if you try to tell them about their beliefs. To study faith healers to see see the whole religious scene in its extreme….a desire to believe in something positive, no matter what. What happens at a healing service is what happens every week in church, just a watered down version, but the same result.
Who cares what this old book says…..do we believe leprosy a curse from God, or that women unclean as to not be able to go to the temple during menstruation, or fact they should be quiet in church, or slavery in general, or talking donkeys, talking snakes, Jonah in the whale for three days, Noah and his ark., etc. I bet not a single person here has read more than ten pages. If not, please tell, I’ll suggest some stuff. Then you judge yourself.
Will keep you posted as to replies. Hope I get some. I have hundreds of verses for everybody to explore.
Shalom, did you have a question about the messiah?
Me: Does almah mean virgin or young woman?
JeanneI see you are reading our artivce on the subject. The scholars who translate the Bible know very well when to write “young woman” and when to write “virgin.” Are you Jewish?
GuestNo, but have gracve doubts about Jesus being botn of a virgin.
JeanneWhether or not he was born of a virgin is not the main point. Whether he has power to forgive your sins and make you right with God is the important part. He can save you from the death due your sins.
GuestHmm, yes, that a good point. But what did I do so wrong. just a father trying to do right. I never rob, cheat, kill, etc. Why dshould I burn in hell for trillions of years just because I look at the nurse’s butt?
JeanneMost of us have never done those obvious sins. But I know I have put myself ahead of God. I have acted like I was in control of my life. I have made myself into my own God. That is much more henious.
GuestWhy can’t I be in charge of my own life?
JeanneBecause you didn’t make yourself. Even your parents didn’t make you. God made you, and he expects you to worship and obey him.
GuestWhy, does he need me to worship him. He created the universe.Why would such a being need me to say anything positive. He have a weak self concept?
JeanneHahaha. God hasn’t told us everything, but it seems like he wants us to have fellowship with him. He has some purpose for us, he hasn’t told us what it is ultimately, but it starts by us loving him as our father, and thus, obeying him as a father.
GuestMy earthly father never needed me to worship him or say thanks for giving to us. Why God? And if I don’t worship him, he going to burn my body for eternity? I wouldn’t do that to my sons.
JeanneYour earthly father wasn’t God. Why risk offending God? There is no reason for you to burn in hell if you humble yourself, repent of your sins, and turn to God. If you think that doesn’t make sence, you are again putting yourself higher than God.
GuestI know these questions of mine are very hard, Jeanne. Please present them to others there and tell me their opinions. I really want to believe, but pure doctrine will not do for me. I need something that makes sense logically. I used to merely accept things, but am beyond that now. Why can’t God make sense?
JeanneWell, you were asking doctrinal questions. In the last analysis, you look at Jesus, what he did and what he said, and then put your faith in him, or not. Look at our tab, “Answers.” God makes sense to me.
GuestSo, you just going to dismiss me, Jeanne? Come on now, don’t just throw me away….which is exactly what everybody else does. You seem like a better person than that.
JeanneI wasn’t dismilling you yet, just remarking where you could find the answer from others in our group. So let me be tactlessly frank. Most non-believers in Jesus find that God doesn’t make sense. It is only when you ask God to enlighten you, reveal himself to you, and mean it seriously, that this all falls into place.
GuestHmm, that looks like a dismissal of my questions, dear Jeanne. I have actually read the Bible….have you? I bet, you just the stuff from Daily Fruit books or from sermons. I was that way until I retired 4 years ago. I began reading because I had always intended to do so, but never did. Hmm, that was a mistake for my 50 year old faith.
JeanneI have red the entire Bible 5 times, and parts of it much more. I think I am dismissing you now. First you say you don’t want the theological answers, but the sensible answers. It’s the same thing. There are no other answers.
Although you have been much more polite than others like you.
Oh, boy, dismissed again. Jeanne, would Jesus do like you just did> All I want is a little logic. I wondering if I am getting to your own faith? I ffel the same about you, and was hoping you would give me answers, but no.
Jeanne: You can never, ever get to my faith. I know whom I have believed, and he has the power to save me. (You too, if you want.) You hve nothing to offer me, but I have peace that passes understanding, joy of heart, and personal fellowship with God.
Me: Oh, boy, dismissed again. Jeanne, would Jesus do like you just did> All I want is a little logic. I wondering if I am getting to your own faith? I ffel the same about you, and was hoping you would give me answers, but no.
3:26 pmSo why not at least address my questions. I will be a lion of God if you can, not a mere follower. Don’t you get this. I really want the answers. Let’s form a partnershgip in thius?
This poster appeared on Facebook…my reaction to it. I doubt if person ever considered what I conveyed. I will post their reaction later here.
What exactly is God’s grace? I bet you never considered it like me…..it’s God’s bending the rules in order to save people. This great for person “saved”, but does nothing for the victims of the person. For example:
Stalin is reported to cause the death of between 20 and 60 million people. He’s dying, and calls out to Jesus to save him. Boom, he saved!!! But what about justice to the 20-60 million people killed. Nothing for them, right? It’s fair to ignore their suffering. No, grace is just a religion trick to be controlled by doctrine of the church. No offense, but just contemplate this a few days before you attack. What if you were one of the 20-60 million people killed…or your kids?
In other words, grace leads to incomplete and unfair justice…..in my little book.
Thanks, Bev. Another thing I just don’t get is exactly what everybody is doing so wrong as to feel so guilty and unworthy of God’s forgiveness. People act like they are robbing, pillaging, cheating on spouses, or hurting children….instead of just having a few bad thoughts, or not saying hello to a neighbor. I wouldn’t condemn my own kids for some bad thoughts. How can God?
Yes, the Ten Commandments only provincial. Moses needed to control
his 2 million people, so he and Aaron invented this. Any real God would
included what Politt mentioned above.
Gays getting married does nothing to my marriage. These people miserable enough living in this country. Just leave them alone. Stop judging them. You own kid might turn out to be gay….who can tell. Then what…your fault? No, they just born that way, like you. You going to change to be gay? No, right. So what can they do/ Problem is that we judge them by a few radicals dressing up like women during parades. I have never seen ones like this in real life. Just leave them alone, I say.