This is a very important post. I just happened on another site I belong to. Read it carefully.
This nothing against Oldbear or JXl, but I just couldn’t let this opportunity to remark about how “scripture” propagated itself back during Jesus’s time.
First I asked the following question.
Here’s one for you, X,. Tell me why the angel of the lord needed Jewish families smear blood (oh nice, let’s use blood) on the mantles of their houses to show him that he should pass over. You mean the angel didn’t know where Jews lived. And tell me how, like Santa Claus, the angel visited and killed the first born….animal and human males…in one night. Oh, this means nothing, right!!! Tell me, that a person like Hitler can be forgiven through grace after he killed indirectly 40-50 million people. What about those 40-50 million people. Where’s the justice for them. They died without the benefit Hitler got.
Hey, x, I have hundreds of these I have noted from reading the Bible. You a man of evidence. Start now and answer the questions. This would help everyone on the fence. Come on, don’t punk out.
Then Oldbear answered….I know a hypothetical for him:
Quote Originally Posted by OldBear83 View Post
OK, so let’s take a hypothetical case. Suppose a man murders a bunch of people then converts to Christianity. Certainly from a secular point of view it looks unjust, but there’s a lot we don’t know. First off, if someone asks God to forgive them but they do not repent of the evil they have done, they are not forgiven. God is God, not a sap to be used to get away with evil.
And repent is not just saying you are sorry. Repentance means not only that you wish you had not done the evil thing, but that you are willing to do what is needed to make things right. Here on earth there is no way to make up for a murder, or any other of a number of crimes. I figure God has ways for us to start the walk back from hell, but while we depend completely on grace for forgiveness, let’s not pretend even for a moment that forgiveness means God condones sin.
So now let’s say our guy is genuinely contrite, wishes he had not done those horrible things. Stop for a moment and imagine if you were that guy. If you are truly contrite for your wrongs, you are now feeling truly wretched as you look back on what you did. Forgiveness does not mean you get to forget what you did.
Now, I have this little idea in my noggin, which I try to keep in mind when I start thinking big on myself and believe I can act the jerk without consequence. Suppose, just suppose, that in the world to come we all meet up again with everyone we ever met … and we have to settle differences with everyone we hurt or insulted. In this next world, you can’t get away with arrogance or pretending you don’t have to answer for your behavior. We don’t get to toss off some clever phrase that puts down the other people and makes us feel like the big shot. We each have to be honest, humble, human with each other, with Jesus as coach and guide but the point is, one by one we have to make peace with everyone we ever hated or hurt. I don’t know about you, but getting there would take me a very long time, and just thinking about it makes me realize I am not a very good man.
Someone like Adolf? If he got to that place, he’d be tormented by the truth and the scale of his malice for centuries. And while I’m not talking about the torments of damnation, the weight of personal responsibility would be severe.
God forgives, but He’s no sap, and you can’t put one past Him.
Then, JXL remarked:
This is great stuff.
Can you see what I am getting at. Oldbear is similar to Paul, making stuff up along the way as needed…though probably sincere (also like Mohamed, Joseph Smith, Ellen White, L. Ron Hubbard, etc). Then a person who wants to believe, JXL, jumps in and accepted it.